defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
"Animal suffering seems at odds with the Christian idea of a loving and powerful God.
After all, if God was all-powerful he could prevent suffering, and if God was perfectly good he would want to prevent suffering.
But animals do suffer on a colossal scale, and as there doesn't seem to be any logical necessity for them to do so Christians have some explaining to do.
This problem of animal suffering is part of the general problem that Christians face in explaining the existence of evil and suffering in God's world.
Theologians and philosophers have tried to deal with animal suffering - here are some of their attempts..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/animals_1.shtml#section_4 -
754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
"The most common answer given by Christians is that the pain and suffering of animals is explained by the sin of human creatures, most notably the Fall of Adam. After all, Romans8:19-22seems to imply that the suffering we find in the natural world is part of the “groaning of creation”--a creation which cries out for redemption from the crippling effects of Adam’s sin.Isaiah 24:2-6directly states that (at least much of) the natural evil in the world derives the fact that the peoples of the earth “disobey the laws,” “violate the statutes,” and “break the covenants.”However, given the very powerful evidence that animals (and their pain, suffering, death, and predation) pre-existed the first human beings, that view seems incomplete. If the pain and suffering of animals predates Adam’s existence, it is hard to see how his (or our) sin could fully explain it...it is worth asking this question: “If all animal pain and suffering came after Adam’s Fall, would the Fall be a potentially good explanation for that pain and suffering?”Many Christian theologians have thought so (Calvin endorses this view in his commentary on chapter 8 of the book of Romans for example). But this explanation has one difficulty, a difficulty I call the “fragility objection.” To see the objection we must consider this question: “What is the supposed connection between Adam’s Fall and animal pain?”...In either case, however, it is hard to see why God would have made the integrity and well-being of nature, and of the innocent creatures in it, susceptible to the faithful obedience of humans (an obedience God knew they would not sustain). Why was nature made so very fragile in this way? Is not that fragility itself a defect (or evil) in creation?...Of course, many will find a solution to the problem that relies on the claim that animals do not experience pain and suffering to be extraordinarily implausible. What might we say then? I think there are two other possible solutions. I will offer one here (and leave the other one for you to discover in chapters 5 and 6 of the book! (it is too long to outline here)). When I have discussed the question of the pain and suffering of animals with Christian scientists, they almost always explain it like this: “Animals feel pain and suffering because without such pain and suffering they would be unable to avoid injury! Pain is the body’s warning system!” Is that a good response? Might pain and suffering be necessary for embodied organisms to avoid injury? "http://www.reasonablefaith.org/animal-suffering1
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The Bible agrees with the Big bang theory, so does the Watchtower
by defender of truth inhttp://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/14359-satan-improves-big-bang/.
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defender of truth
(from page 2 of the thread)
cvillarrubia 31 Mar 2014
"The only point of disagreement I find between the Bible and the Big Bang theory is related to the ultimate fate of the universe, and this is a perfect case of the limitations of human science.
According to the Big Bang cosmological model, there are basically two possible scenarios, depending on the shape and density of the universe: or it continues expanding forever, or it collapses due the force of gravity and begins shrinking back to the initial point. In any of those cases, the fuel that keeps stars shining gradually runs out, the universe becomes colder and colder until everything is cold and dark and dead.The reasoning behind those calculations is perfectly sound: the stars are huge masses of hydrogen that slowly turns into helium due to some nuclear reactions, releasing in the process enormous amounts of light and heat. Since the amount of hydrogen is not infinite, there will come a point when it will be exhausted, and the star will extinguish, exactly like a car that runs out of fuel. This is as logical as all get out.
I said this shows the limitations of human science because they are only calculating from a materialistic viewpoint, without taking into account Jehovah's power and purpose. Maybe he has established a mechanism to invert that process. Maybe he has another solution ready. Or maybe we got everything wrong. We will see after a few thousands of millions of years." -
127
OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????
by DATA-DOG inlook...i am not an atheist.
even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.
the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.
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defender of truth
Tisdall:
"Evangelization in the 21st century
Considering that the theory of evolution is actually a belief system and not science,.."
http://creationwiki.org/Laurence_Tisdall -
127
OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????
by DATA-DOG inlook...i am not an atheist.
even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.
the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.
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defender of truth
(I'll stop now)
Newyork44m--
http://psychologytoday.com/blog/hot-thought/201307/karma-what-goes-around-comes-around -
127
OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????
by DATA-DOG inlook...i am not an atheist.
even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.
the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.
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defender of truth
@Vanderhoven-- I'll wait for your reply
@Mynameislame--
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/3304496/Be-lucky-its-an-easy-skill-to-learn.html -
127
OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????
by DATA-DOG inlook...i am not an atheist.
even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.
the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.
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127
OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????
by DATA-DOG inlook...i am not an atheist.
even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.
the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.
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defender of truth
Vanderhoven, can you please ask God to provide you with £1,000,000 in order for you to donate it to help end homelessness in the UK? Thousands are in need, not just you.
If He would provide for you to fix your shed and pay your mortgage, how much more of a worthy cause would this be? I'm being serious, not flippant. Please at least have the respect to reply with a yes or no, and a reason would be even more appreciated.
http://www.crisis.org.uk/pages/homeless-def-numbers.html -
127
OK..Seriously..Has GOD ever answered your prayers????
by DATA-DOG inlook...i am not an atheist.
even so, i have never had one prayer answered my entire life.
the only thing that would even come close was learning ttatt.
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defender of truth
Vanderhoven, if your prayers have so often been answered, can you ask God to provide millions of pounds to.. Someone name a charity. Two weeks notice should be fine judging from your example.